"You are a typical Bulgarian…. Say lots, but do nothing !"
A personal attack? really? You have nothing more intelligent to say?
You should be ashamed of yourself stooping so low as to make unsubstantiated claims and personal allegations.
How can you know what I am doing and what I have accomplished on this issue?
This dialogue with you is becoming monotonous and uninteresting so let’s not waste any more time on it…
I don’t care whether you believe in Sociology or not, it’s not my concern, also your opinions on the Roma or Bulgarian in general."
Let the record show that:
- ankle will not debate what ankle sees as an important issue.
- ankle will not supply an example of a successful sociological theory, all that was required by Mihail was one or two sentences.
- ankle did not supply a vision on the Roma problem after being asked and after Mihail supplied his.
- ankle did not address the logical conclusion of ankle's views, i.e. why won't ankle live in the Roma ghetto or in a peaceful village to understand the issues better as a social scientist.
- ankle WILL NOT ADMIT that SOME Roma communities are perpetuating a culture of crime and a culture that doesn't respect any laws and a culture that doesn't care about education and welfare of children and family.
"It’s a fact and has nothing to do with my arrogance that Sociology does show us lots of ways society works and also sometimes the solutions."
I asked you a specific question. I know sociologists can explain things after they happen. Give me an example of one theory that has consistent predictive power, one theory that sociologists have used to better humanity with success better than that of a horoscope.. "Lot's of ways society works" is just a coverup for not having a clue how society works.
"it’s up to the Bulgarian Governments to integrate the Roma"
You haven't been listening to me. I am against any forceful action of this sort. All that is required for tolerance and acceptance, that will get rid of all our problems was if the government enforced the law on all citizens of Bulgaria.
And we need to start understanding that there is no such thing as "Roma", there are merely Bulgarians living in Bulgaria with different life-style. Anyone that doesn't agree with this is a racists and is against the idea of a civic nation.
"As I’ve said before, lets hear your views along with how you propose to solve the ongoing Bulgarian problems that is blighting and stagnating your country?"
I've given you my solution. Would you please share you wisdom with us. What did you learn in school?
"Of course I know that there’s a lot of crime in the Roma community the same as everywhere in Bulgaria, it’s endemic."
Are you going to admit that some Roma communities are perpetuating a culture of crime and a culture that doesn't respect any laws and a culture that doesn't care about education and welfare of children and family?
You think this is wrong, I say they have a right to live this way as long as the law is enforced for them. YOU would have them forcefully "integrated" like the communists that created this problem tried. How well do you think these stooges in the parliament are going to carry that out?
You keep evading my question, if you really cared about these problems, like a good social scientist, you would broaden your knowledge and experience and move to the ghetto for a while to gather first-hand data. Will you? "Yes" or "No" ?
"The thing you are missing is rational it’s that simple! You’re dogmatic approach to everything is counterproductive and only pushes the problem around without a conclusion.
My experiences of the Roma as I told you previously, are based I want I saw with my own eyes and whether I lived in their own houses or not is irrelevant.
You are the reason that Bulgarian is now in the state it is and a worldwide laughing stock, because you are arrogant and have plenty to say but do nothing about anything, only passing the blame onto others.
Denial is a very bad human failure and you are consumed with it……"
Nice way to avoid the hard questions I asked you.
And this gets us nowhere, I can say the same thing about you. You are missing the thing that's rational and simple, and you are also in some kind of dogma and you are definitely in denile. Now where are we?
I like your honesty that you think Bulgaria is a laughing stock, this is why you will never convince people that love our country that they should listen to you. Well to me Europe today is a laughing stock, with their stupid ideologies and corrupt political class.
You accuse me of not doing anything, but you didn't answer my question about how much money you donated to those poor people. Am I not doing something right now? I actually spend a great deal of time talking to misguided people in Bulgaria that have racial issues and try to convince them that this is the wrong path. I debate people instead of labeling them as crazy. I am in a struggle every day on these issues because this is my country and I have a personal stake for my safety and the well being of all of us. This stuff affects me personally, but to you it's a little game you play for self-satistfaction.
Please tell me what I've said was arrogant. You've told me that if only I'd study sociology I'd come to your view point. Isn't that arrogant?! Isn't it arrogant to proclaim yourself as the savior and philosopher king of Bulgaria? If only we'd listen to you and weren't so stupid, right? In all you posts to try to pass blame onto others and have not once admitted that there's a serious crime problem in some the of Roma community. But then you claim I am passing blame onto others. I am not blaming you or foreigners for our problems, I am blaming you for perpetuating them.
I don't consider this a blame game, every party has some part in it, but I'd prefer if you had some more humility and tried to understand the problem better.
If you'd go live in the ghetto for a while or in the villages where people are living happily without racial issues you'd get a better picture. Krasna polyana is not Bulgaria.
"You said previously that your fellow Bulgarians resisted the Germans requests to send the Jews to the “gas chambers”?"
I'm getting kind of tired of your lack of logical follow-through, please try to think through what I've tried to say before you post.
I did say that and I stand by it. My other point was that it was foreign ideologies that inspired OUR LEADERS to send Jews to gas chambers. And if you will think a bit you will see that these are not contradictory statements.
On the contrary, it shows that foreign intervention and your so called "helping us solve our problems", has historically done great harm to people in Bulgaria.
"Hundreds of years of tolerance in your countries heritage, is that how you describe living first with the Ottomans and then the Fascists followed by the Communists?"
Bulgarian accounts of history, and our literature has shown me that we were an extremely tolerant society and lived together with different religions and cultures for a very long time, and this is still the case.
Indeed, even under the ottoman empire there was little conflict with regular turkish people. You can see this in the literature. And with all the books I've read I've never seen one mention of gypsies or any negative racial comments. And I have never seen mention of religious intolerance.
We don't have the same history of oppressing and enslaving people, I think that's where your problem is. Our people NEVER had problems with our Jewish or Muslim or Roma population before western racialist theories and antisemitism was spread to our country.
These are new phenomena that we have the "western intellectuals" and crusaders to thank for, their racial and class theories have undermined our society, that is the reason we went through fascism and communism, our politicians were willing to sell off our people and abuse these ideas from the west. And by the way, communists were never intolerant, just totalitarian, they implemented the same idea of forced integration that many like "Sofia Notes" advocates, and that is partly why we have a problem today.
The communist also caused religious problems because of that fake movie they put out about forced conversions. Many people don't realize that those people converted to Islam voluntarily for many different reasons.
It's time for you to go home and let's hope we can get rid of your corrupting influence and go back to traditional values centered around the community and the familly.
Calling me ridiculous is very ignorant, you just don't want to admit you never thought of these things.
viking correctly pointed out:
"It looks like more foreigners poking their noses into Bulgaria’s affairs and trying to help them….. Shame on them !"
I am sure you would have made the same comment about the Russians in 1877."
ankle would have said the same about the Germans that convinced our leaders to massacre Jews in WW2. Once again we the people of Bulgaria need to stop these foreigners and their corrupt ideologies before they collapse our country and destroy our heritage of tolerance that we developed for hundreds of years.
They don't realize that they are part of the problem because they will never be on the receiving end of the problem.
Sorry to belabor this, you still haven't provided me with a successful sociological theory that has predicted any major social development. I am aware of many theories that explain things and indeed for each phenomena I estimate there are 15 contradictory theories that the same sociologist accepts.
Furthermore you never gave me an example of that knowledge that you so ardently claimed I was missing and without it I would never understand you.
"I lived in Krasna polyana for over a year where there is a very high population of Roma families and although not actually living in their houses, was very close by."
Please. Krasna polyana is NOT the ghetto and you were living in a normal apartment and observing people like some sick scientist (sociologist?). How much money did you donate to the community? I will agree that the people that live in krasna polyana have a lower income distribution, but that holds for all of them, there is nothing special about the Roma. The fact that you concentrate on racial groups MAKES YOU THE RACIST.
I try to look positively and convince people that we are all Bulgarians like it or not, and that the law should be upheld equally for everyone. YOU ARE THE NEGATIVE AND RACIST. My point was that YOU would never move to the ghetto (this means filipovci in Sofia), because I put to you, you are in this more for yourself than others.
If you really cared you wouldn't play the race game with all the nationalists and skinheads. But I bet you enjoy this little pseudo-factual and pseudo-intellectual game that you play at the expense of people like me that actually suffer from this divide and that want this whole thing to go away so we can walk the streets safely and not get harassed. Do you realize how much pain you bring to people and to me personally? In that way you are the same as the skin-heads.
Your whole tirade hinged on the respectability of sociology and your superior understanding of it. Are you not capable of defending it? Bring it on and let's see how much you really know. Give me one sociological theory that can be compared in terms of predictive power with any scientific theory.
Show some solidarity and move to the Roma ghetto in a city of your choice, let's say Plovdiv, together with all your do-gooder intellectual friends from western Europe. Stay there till the problem is resolved.
If you're not willing to do that (If you are racist or demanding of luxury and would never live in the ghetto), what would also help is if you would give away your homes and possessions to Roma that you believe have been mistreated, or at least let them live in your home and pay their bills until they can step on their feet.
How's that for a proposal, I think you should agree to this.
Ok ankle, now I get where you're coming from.
"Why are you so full of aggression towards people that are trying to help you as a Bulgarian?"
I am not full of aggression, I am merely trying to defend Bulgarians from this negative stereotyping that you continue to push.
"You are certainly not a sociologist and should listen to other people that know more about your fellow citizens than you do."
sociology is crrrrap, I know enough of it to know that. It is not a science and has NEVER explained anything and cannot be relied on for prediction. Sociologists are ignorant and narrow-minded brain-washed rationalists. Sociology borders on metaphysics and indeed that's where its roots are. Spirited marxist have made things even worse by turning it into a religion.
You do not know more about my fellow citizens that I do, the fact that you don't comprehend anything I say goes to show that intelligence does not arise from studying sociology.
You say you want to help. What I've been trying to explain to you is that you are part of the problem, not the solution. On top of that you need to learn some humility, imagine that there are people out there with different view than you that may know more than you and may be smarter than you.
The fact that you're a foreigner and you think you should be a philosopher king is very insulting to me.
Sofia Notes and ankle,
You are like an ignorant mob of little children and you'll never understand how ignorant you are.
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