Ukraine Rebels Retain Control of Crash Victims' Bodies, Black Boxes
Pro-Russian separatists are still keeping custody of about 200 (out of 298) victims of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777's plane crash in Eastern Ukraine.
Kiev officials, but also representatives of the militiamen, say international experts have limited access to the site of the wreckage.
The "Donetsk People's Republic"'s press office declared that the visit of an international team was being put off.
Alexander Boroday, who announced the news, was quoted by ITAR-TASS as saying the inspection had not been canceled on the "republic"'s request, but was more likely to have been advisedly protracted by Ukrainian officials.
Boroday also argued the aircraft's black boxes had been seized by rebels and were now in Donetsk, Eastern Ukraine's fifth-largest city which has been under activist control for months.
Russia's RIA Novosti agency, for its part, reports bodies of victims had also been transported to Donetsk, while the BBC quotes "emergency workers" as saying they are in the town of Torez, near the site of the incident.
Ukrainian National Security and Defense Spokesman Andriy Lysenko says the 196 bodies which emergency personnel from the country had managed to recover had been handed over to the separatists, after the latter forced the workers into doing so.
Michael Bociurkiw, who leads an OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) mission to the region, explained monitors were allowed "a brief inspection" by armed guards of the Donetsk People's Republic, "the ones in charge of that area".
Kiev and Washington maintain they have conclusive evidence that it was rebels who downed the plane, while rebels operating in the Donbass put the blame on Ukrainian authorities.
US intelligence reports earlier suggested the Boeing-777 had been shot down by a missile, and according to later information it was purportedly fired from a rebel-controlled chunk in the east of Ukraine.
Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko even claims his country has "satellite images" at disposal to prove the separatists' responsibility and also the implication of Russia, with the latter having provided the missile system used to down the machine.
He has also declared intentions to submit an international request that the "Donetsk People's Republic" and the "Luhansk People's Republic" be declared terrorist organizations.
Moscow has denied involvement and has explained Kiev also has the military capacities to target the plane.
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;-)...thanks once again, Riichie. I've submitted my explanations (in the other topic) already. What to add? Look, I"m not against Farnborough, it's the high level structure. I was against the Procedure. Not Holland-Farnborough, but Holland(or Malaysia) - ICAO -Farnborough (or any other reputable structure) would be the correct solution. And now...now not the fact that "lab in Farnborough is..." , but the fact (if fact) that Russian experts are invited for the joint work "makes me happy". And just it will make me "sleep a bit better", though...Best.
Sorry to interfere, Tania, really and honestly: sorry. But there are 2 remarks:
(1) "Russia/Ukraine, rebels, non rebels, anti west, pro west, etc: " , You wrote. Think that to hide "West" in "etc"
is not fair and unbiased approach.
(2) "We will all find out who did this in due course"--- Yesterday I'd have agreed with You fully, yesterday.... when I had no doubts that MH17 Black Boxes would be handed over to ICAO. But today they appeared in....Farnboro. And now I'm not sure of anything.
Innocent until proven guilty:
Interesting that you would "enlighten" me personally with your views, and not the other 7 people that have also commented on this thread. But anyway...........
I'd say that you are the ignorant, because you cannot read.
Where in my post did I lay the blame on 1 party only? I wrote: "That applies to all involved, whichever "side you're on". Russia/Ukraine, rebels, non rebels, anti west, pro west, etc: someone is responsible. What don't you understand about that?
"NOBODY has found any FACTS indicating who fired that missile!!"...........Obviously and you're a genius! Of course someone fired a missile at a civillian plane and killed them all, didn't they? Whoever is responsible are barbarians! Pretty simple really. We will all find out who did this in due course. They won't be able to sweep this one under the carpet.
So until then, why don't you just sit on your eggs and pickle.
Tania, what happened to innocent until proven guilty. NOBODY has found any FACTS indicating who fired that missile!!
Ignorants like you follow the propaganda of the liberal media and point the finger to their oponents without any evidence!!
Why was the flight plan of the MH17 diverted to overfly the area of the freedomfighters? Why there is evidence manufactured to point the fingure to Russia and the freedom fighters? Obviously, somebody knows the truth and they are attempting to sway the media that they didn't do it!!
Surprising to find out that there are still voices of reason in Russia (even if it's a handful). An article in FT http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f48ff78c-1182-11e4-b356-00144feabdc0.html#axzz388fdKKnM summarizes an interview by Russia's former foreign minister Alexei Kudrin warning on the isolation Russia is facing.
In an interview with Itar-Tass, Mr Kudrin said conservative forces had seized upon the Ukraine crisis to push the country towards an isolationist course, and this ran counter to the interests of Russian business, which depends on global funds and markets.
“The political landscape in our country has changed seriously, and the socio-political one fundamentally. We have become the west’s adversary again,” Mr Kudrin said.
“There are forces in the country who have long wanted to distance us, who wanted isolation, maybe a certain self-sufficiency. Today this has all fallen on fertile ground, and I’m really surprised at the extent of anti-western rhetoric that has emerged.”
Good to know that at least some Russians maintain some level of sanity. Unlike the previous poster (who represents the typical Russian peasant on the street) who believes that Martians allied with the CIA are hell bent on destroying Russia, the business community will be the first to raise alarm at the economic destruction Russia certainly faces and hopefully voices of reason in business circles will force the petty dictator in the Kremlin to change course. When the masses get out of control (as we can see with the retarded conspiracy theorists on this forum) the country faces imminent collapse.
Russian elites, please get a hold of your country that the ignorant, uncouth, hysterical, racist and ultra nationalist peasants are leading to the abyss.
Not for that stinking bastard which "was in Slaviansk 20km [instead of the real 150km linear distance] from the Russian border", but for those who are prepared to know what is thoroughly hidden from them by MSM:
The OSCE observers listen to people in Lugansk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqLaXQqsZ4
The OSCE observer Kay Vitrup says: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VFQR0KsldU
"~ For the last 4-5 days..I saw that the civilian targets exclusively-houses, factories, apartments- were bombed.
These people did nothing, they just live here. And what do they get? The things like this [splinter of a bomb]..."
A woman: "Ukr.Army came here "to defend us"!? I like it. Who defends in such a way?"
A month ago I was in Slaviansk 20km from the Russian border and saw first hand how ethnic Russians gathered a Ukrainian family of 6, two parents, two small children age 7 and 9 and the grandparents and put them in boiling pot and boiled them to death while they chanted: "Mother Russia" "Mother Russia". Then they proceeded to eat the whole family for dinner.....starting with the children's eyes. Then they raped the dead bodies and used their hair as filling for their pillows.
If anyone in the West with two cents intelligence would believe these type of stories I could become a millionaire overnight selling bullshit. Surprisingly Russians really are dumber and more ignorant than many third world monkeys. If you turn on Russian tv these days the story I just invented is told over and over (of course in their "story" the evil guys are the Ukrainians acting on behalf of the CIA naturally).
Russians, get your heads out of your stinking asses and open your FUCKING EYES IDIOTS. You are being manipulated by a propaganda machine that surpasses the one you used during the Cold War.
Thanks for "separatists", TinuzH. Some weeks ago I was in Shakhti, a Russian town, ~30km from the Russian-Ukrainian border. I saw and heard refugees, women and children. "They [Poroshenko &Co] call us "separatists", "rebels", but we live/lived on our land, not we but they came to us, they kill us, our men fight against them, Putin promised to help but he didn't, why? World don't hear us, nobody wants to stop these thugs, why?" A young woman with a little girl in the arms, with empty eyes, without tears, in a level voice, told how his man and son were killed, her house ruined, she was raped...
To shoot down a plane filled with innocent people is a crime. To kill innocent people on their land is a crime. Putin
told ~3 months ago: "Russia won't allow the extermination of civilians in the South-East of Ukraine". And what?
He allowed. Putin lost my respect. So that's that, TinuzH.
I would also like to say that as much as I dislike the man for ordinary Russians he has been good and now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. Somewhat by his own gamble but still what can he do now? Withdraw support for the "separatists" hurts him at home. Continue supporting them and he will be an international pariah.
@sha-sha my post was from a time when there was limited access to the site. Luckily reports coming from there are now much more positive. Let's get the victims home first, that should be a first priority and then figure out who exactly did what and how. And yes I agree with you on one point: Ukraine bombing their own people is plain wrong as were the snipers on Maidan. However, that is no excuse - mistakenly or not - to shoot down a plane filled with innocent people. And their relatives deserves a decent answer to get some sort of closure.
The bodies of the victims are on their way to the Netherlands and the black boxes are being handed over to the Malaysian government. Western news media are saying this tonight.
This is a tragedy, the speratists have to be careful so by dealing with the Dutch and Malaysians is the right thing to do.
The Kiev government and the US are fighting a propoganda war against Russia and cannot be trusted with evidence.
To Tinush: as the rest of the "civilized World", You are fully guarded by MSM against such a dirt as the reliable info. Meanwhile the confirmed info is: the OSCE team works on the scene for the fourth day and this team strictly refutes the US officials' statements that "separatists" block the access to the scene. Dutch identification team has arrived in Donetsk. The officials of Donetsk People's Republic said they would wait for the advice from this team as to where to send the train with the bodies of victims. Meanwhile the Ukrainian "central authorities", despitenumerous requests from Russia and other States, continue bombing Donetsk and other regions in the South-East....Please, be more accurate in Your approach, Tinush. Task №1 today is not to bark, sorry, on Russia, but to force Kiev to stop bombings immediately and thus to ensure the quite work of the experts.
To Tania OZ: Barbarians and subhumans are those who launched the extermination of civilians in the South-East of Ukraine and ALL those who support and encourage those bastards to further hostilities.